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'Humiliating defeat' awaits doctors
SO West Wirral Group Practice refuses to give up their dream fantasy of a super-surgery at The Warrens.
First there was a planning application and it failed for good reasons. Despite this, they paid for a traffic survey in a weak and deeply flawed attempt to prove The Warrens site isn't too busy. A blind person can tell it's already too busy!
They then paid for a site survey, with the permission of Wirral Council, to enable them to design their ideal building and car park layout despite their earlier planning application failure. That, in itself, was already beyond belief.
Then they employed planning consultants to create a lavish design with no expense spared! They then submitted another planning application which was the same as the first - and again it failed for the same reasons as before.
That last failure, however, was far greater in that far more people were involved and we objected vociferously.
The planning committee voted unanimously against the Primary Care Trust's (PCT) proposals - their supporters were so few and weak it was an embarrassment, the objectors were many and jubilant . . . and the PCT and doctors had to walk out of the Town Hall with their tails between their legs'!
What is more, most people present believed that surely the doctors would now give up their ridiculous and massively unpopular plans.
But no, clearly they don't think that they have wasted enough public money yet and now they are pursuing an expensive public inquiry, despite being told it was not in the public's interests to do so.
Perhaps if they had to pay for everything out of their immense and undeserved salaries they might never have considered such a stupid crusade in the first place.
Unfortunately, these doctors are clearly arrogant and ignorant and don't seem to realise that they are heading for the most humiliating public defeat of their lives. They're like spoilt, petulant children who've set their hearts on a very expensive toy which, hopefully, they're just not going to get.
They're making themselves extremely unpopular and I very much doubt that West Wirral Group Practice can survive for much longer whatever the result of the public inquiry - and I, for one, won't miss them!
D.V. Hall,
Kings Drive,
Irby
1:48pm Tuesday 6th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Dr Stephen Forster, Heswall on 8:59pm Fri 9 May 08
i feel it is disappointing that the Wirral Globe took a view to publish the letter from Mr D Hall ("humiliating defeat awaits doctors" - 6th may).This is obviously an extremely emotive subject and generates strong feelings on both sides but Mr Hall's letter quickly descended into a vindictive and personal attack against the hard working doctors at West Wirral Group Practice. He is obviously very angry but I do not feel this was an appropriate forum for such a "rant".
i feel it is disappointing that the Wirral Globe took a view to publish the letter from Mr D Hall ("humiliating defeat awaits doctors" - 6th may).This is obviously an extremely emotive subject and generates strong feelings on both sides but Mr Hall's letter quickly descended into a vindictive and personal attack against the hard working doctors at West Wirral Group Practice. He is obviously very angry but I do not feel this was an appropriate forum for such a "rant".
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 12:43am Sat 10 May 08
Dr Forster....I do believe that Dave Hall has every right to be angry at the PCT`s actions. Whilst he may have been a little agressive with his terminology just bear in mind that the facts he has put forward are correct.
The council planning committee have turned down planning persmission on two separate occasions for legitimate reasons and yet the PCT keep spending, presumably, large amounts of money fighting those decisions made by our elected council. So can you tell us when the PCT intend to give up the expensive fight against a democratic decision made by Metropolitan Borough of Wirral twice. I am no lawyer and not a planner but arent the council abiding by government guidelines on Greenbelt land which the PCT seem hell bent on ignoring.
Dr Forster....I do believe that Dave Hall has every right to be angry at the PCT`s actions. Whilst he may have been a little agressive with his terminology just bear in mind that the facts he has put forward are correct.
The council planning committee have turned down planning persmission on two separate occasions for legitimate reasons and yet the PCT keep spending, presumably, large amounts of money fighting those decisions made by our elected council. So can you tell us when the PCT intend to give up the expensive fight against a democratic decision made by Metropolitan Borough of Wirral twice. I am no lawyer and not a planner but arent the council abiding by government guidelines on Greenbelt land which the PCT seem hell bent on ignoring.
Posted by: Dr Stephen Forster, Heswall on 10:56am Mon 12 May 08
The facts may be correct, but it is also a fact that the doctors of WWGP and the PCT have not taken any action that is not legal or follows the correct procedures. He may be angry but to use language such as [italic]"these doctors are clearly arrogant and ignorant"[/italic]and [italic]"out of their immense and undeserved salaries"[/italic] was inappropriate.
The facts may be correct, but it is also a fact that the doctors of WWGP and the PCT have not taken any action that is not legal or follows the correct procedures. He may be angry but to use language such as
"these doctors are clearly arrogant and ignorant"and
"out of their immense and undeserved salaries" was inappropriate.
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 12:49pm Mon 12 May 08
I have no doubt that actions taken by he PCT were legal and above board but the fact remains that large amounts of money have and are being been spent on appealing decisions made more than once by our democratically elected concil. You cloud the issue by complaining about Dave Halls words but have not even attempted to defend the the PCT and presumably your own actions against a decision made by the planning department on behalf of the electorate of Wirral.
I have no doubt that actions taken by he PCT were legal and above board but the fact remains that large amounts of money have and are being been spent on appealing decisions made more than once by our democratically elected concil. You cloud the issue by complaining about Dave Halls words but have not even attempted to defend the the PCT and presumably your own actions against a decision made by the planning department on behalf of the electorate of Wirral.
Posted by: Dr Stephen Forster, Heswall on 9:26am Tue 13 May 08
I believe "the issue" of my original post WAS Mr Halls words and you presume very wrongly as I am not involved with West Wirral Group Practice. I just felt, and still do, that the tone of the letter was wrong.
I believe "the issue" of my original post WAS Mr Halls words and you presume very wrongly as I am not involved with West Wirral Group Practice. I just felt, and still do, that the tone of the letter was wrong.
Posted by: Little Miss Sunshine, Thingwall on 3:21pm Tue 13 May 08
Mr Hall's Letter was fantastic. If it had have been rude or aggressive it would not have been printed. I wish him well.
Mr Hall's Letter was fantastic. If it had have been rude or aggressive it would not have been printed. I wish him well.
Posted by: J. Briggs, Wirral on 12:01am Thu 15 May 08
I feel the letter written by Mr Hall was totally out of order. The matter of the surgery relocating should be democratically debated using the facts. It should not involve personal and quite frankly childish attacks on the doctors, who are working very hard to get their patients a better surgery and all in all provide a better quality of healthcare in doing so. I would like to wish the doctors and their seventeen thousand signature petition the best of luck with the surgery plans.
I feel the letter written by Mr Hall was totally out of order. The matter of the surgery relocating should be democratically debated using the facts. It should not involve personal and quite frankly childish attacks on the doctors, who are working very hard to get their patients a better surgery and all in all provide a better quality of healthcare in doing so. I would like to wish the doctors and their seventeen thousand signature petition the best of luck with the surgery plans.
Posted by: Jack Frost, birkenhead on 12:44pm Thu 15 May 08
Briggs, this have been democratically debated TWICE... Why can't they get the message ?
Briggs, this have been democratically debated TWICE... Why can't they get the message ?
Posted by: J. Briggs, Wirral on 11:57pm Thu 15 May 08
As the doctors feel (quite rightly) that the thousands of patients they treat deserve a high quality health care in a suitable none discriminatory, up to date building.
As the doctors feel (quite rightly) that the thousands of patients they treat deserve a high quality health care in a suitable none discriminatory, up to date building.
Posted by: Dave Hall, Irby on 10:08am Fri 16 May 08
To Dr. Forster, he of the lower-case "i".
I seem to have 'hit a raw nerve' with my "immense and undeserved salaries" comment! My letter was never an attack on all G.P.s but clearly the truth hurts the most. No G.P. is worth over 3 times the amount paid to teachers.
I stand by every word of my letter, indeed I am very proud of it, and many others agree with me completely (if you don't believe me just take a look at page 3 of the Hes. News). One patient of W.W.G.P. even described having an "uplifting experience" as he read my letter!
There is far more to this whole affair than you could ever realise and you would be ill-advised to involve yourself further in a situation that doesn't directly concern you.
By the way J. Briggs - what 17,000 petition? The petition that I saw on public show for years at Hes. Group Practice never mentioned the Warrens and there are now many people who originally thought that they could trust their doctors but now bitterly regret signing that petition. That will all be clear at the Public Inquiry as 100s, if not 1000s, of objectors queue up to vent their fury at the doctors and PCT, all in a polite and well-ordered way of course!
Even if they get their H.C. at the Warrens, due to the risk of central government imposing it upon us even when so few people want it, their unpopularity will be confirmed and everything that I've said will be vindicated.
Just a very minor point - there are several very suitable alternative sites which are actually
centrally located, unlike the Warrens, but all of those who claim otherwise have repeated such a deceit so often that they must actually believe it themselves!
Thank-you to all who support our cause and agree with me, especially to you Dave Rimmer who always seems to be there talking common-sense when others seem to be either very confused or just plain wrong!
From Dave Hall (Tree Warden).
To Dr. Forster, he of the lower-case "i".
I seem to have 'hit a raw nerve' with my "immense and undeserved salaries" comment! My letter was never an attack on all G.P.s but clearly the truth hurts the most. No G.P. is worth over 3 times the amount paid to teachers.
I stand by every word of my letter, indeed I am very proud of it, and many others agree with me completely (if you don't believe me just take a look at page 3 of the Hes. News). One patient of W.W.G.P. even described having an "uplifting experience" as he read my letter!
There is far more to this whole affair than you could ever realise and you would be ill-advised to involve yourself further in a situation that doesn't directly concern you.
By the way J. Briggs - what 17,000 petition? The petition that I saw on public show for years at Hes. Group Practice never mentioned the Warrens and there are now many people who originally thought that they could trust their doctors but now bitterly regret signing that petition. That will all be clear at the Public Inquiry as 100s, if not 1000s, of objectors queue up to vent their fury at the doctors and PCT, all in a polite and well-ordered way of course!
Even if they get their H.C. at the Warrens, due to the risk of central government imposing it upon us even when so few people want it, their unpopularity will be confirmed and everything that I've said will be vindicated.
Just a very minor point - there are several very suitable alternative sites which are actually
centrally located, unlike the Warrens, but all of those who claim otherwise have repeated such a deceit so often that they must actually believe it themselves!
Thank-you to all who support our cause and agree with me, especially to you Dave Rimmer who always seems to be there talking common-sense when others seem to be either very confused or just plain wrong!
From Dave Hall (Tree Warden).
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