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Tories are biggest group in Wirral
TORIES and Labour councillors were very much in agreement about one thing - voting patterns appear to have matched national unhappiness with Gordon Brown's Government.
Veteran Wallasey Conservative Kate Wood, who held her Wallasey seat, told the Globe: "There's little doubt about it - the public is clearly dissatisfied with the Labour Government and Gordon Brown in particular.
"The 10p tax rise has been constantly mentioned on the doorstep but it wasn't just that.
"There also seems to be some substantial measure of general distaste about the state of Mr Brown's premiership."
New Liscard Conservative councillor James Keeley - a 21-year-old student currently at Liverpool University, who beat Labour incumbent Dave Hawkins - said: "I am enormously proud to have been elected to represent the ward of Liscard.
"This is the first time in 23 years that the Conservative party has held all three seats in the Liscard ward.
"I do of course recognise that there has been a certain level of voting in our favour because of the problems the Government has brought upon itself, but I can honestly say that we did not campaign on that locally.
"We've been talking to the people of Liscard about how the Conservatives would change the way things are being run and clearly we've been listened to and understood.
"I have to say that my Liscard colleagues Leah Fraser and Karen Hayes have paved the way for people to believe in what we stand for. We fully deserve this win."
| "Every door we knocked on, people were complaining about the 10p tax rise" | | Pat Hackett |
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New Brighton's Labour councillor Pat Hackett, the cabinet member for regeneration, lost his seat to the Tories Sue Taylor after 14 years.
"I am of course terribly disappointed but I can't pretend I didn't see it coming," he said. "Every door we knocked on, people were complaining about the 10p tax rise - and that's not something that we can do anything about on a local level.
"I'm disappointed because I've been working for years and years to bring investment into New Brighton, and it's ironic that now that the money is actually here - with the new Floral Pavilion taking shape and the rest of the resort redevelopment finally coming into place - that national issues should overshadow that."
The Conservatives' Ian Lewis took Leasowe from Labour's Don Prout, giving them a seat in the ward for the first time.
"We didn't fight for this seat on national issues and we didn't need to," said Mr Lewis. "The people of Leasowe and Moreton East are fed up with the way the local Lib-Lab pact has treated them and they've voted comprehensively to tell them just that.
"I have been welcomed warmly by residents over the last 18 months and I am delighted and proud to be able to represent them on Wirral Borough Council for the next four years."
Labour party leader Steve Foulkes said: "As my mum always used to tell me when I entered politics - you have to expect nights like this.
"This is not a great night, that's true. But we also have to appreciate that many people are voting against us because of national issues we don't control.
"I'm upset for people like Pat Hackett who has worked his socks off for years to attract investment into his ward in New Brighton, and just as his hard work comes to fruition he finds himself out of a seat because of issues with central Government.
"As a party, we now need to reflect on the decisions made against us and concentrate even more on local issues.
"Our story locally was very good in terms of the levels of council tax we've delivered and the investment we've helped bring to Wirral. We've performed well.
"But people are more concerned about national issues right now and we have to recognise that.
"So it's not been a good night, and naturally I'm disappointed. But we'll go away and we'll examine what's happened, and we will bounce back. I can promise you that."
Conservatives have been excluded from council committees during the past 12 months due to a Labour and Lib Dem partnership.
Lib Dem group leader Simon Holbrook said that position would be looked at: "I'm not ruling anything in and I'm not ruling anything out. The agreement with Labour was only ever set up to last a year.
"The onus is on the Tories to come to us with their ideas."
1:19am Friday 2nd May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Ray Rowland, Noctorum on 9:18am Fri 2 May 08
I'm glad to hear some candidates actually visited people in their wards.
Unlike some councillors who are so conceited as to not think the electorate in their constituency aren't worth the trouble as they think they know they will win. Lets hope the electorate stops behaving like three blind mice and starts to think who they are voting for.
I'm glad to hear some candidates actually visited people in their wards.
Unlike some councillors who are so conceited as to not think the electorate in their constituency aren't worth the trouble as they think they know they will win. Lets hope the electorate stops behaving like three blind mice and starts to think who they are voting for.
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, wallasey on 10:09am Fri 2 May 08
Oh, is that right Mr Foulkes, its all national governments fault eh, nothing to do with you and your councillors performance for the people of Wirral...says it all doesn`t it.
Oh, is that right Mr Foulkes, its all national governments fault eh, nothing to do with you and your councillors performance for the people of Wirral...says it all doesn`t it.
Posted by: Steve the sniper, Noctorum on 10:17am Fri 2 May 08
Typical of the way the mood of Joe pubic is being manipulated. People are loosing sight of the real context of local elections and are thus becoming narrow minded and reactionary. Councillors who have worked hard to address the needs of their constituents are being ousted in the beleief that this will rattle the government. Well here's news - ever since the time of the meglomaniacal thatcher government, top politicians on all sides have become increasingly arrogant and self serving. They are not particularly phased by local ballot results. So carry on with your futile protest vote if you think it's the right thing to do - Gordon Won't be tossing and turning. And best of British to 21 year old James Keeley the politics student who has been elected in Liscard. After he's attended a few councill meetings he should have plenty of ideas for his final dissertation - I predict the title 'WIRRAL' THE POLITICAL SITUATION 1999-2009 PUBLIC SERVICE OR EXISTENTIONALISM?
Typical of the way the mood of Joe pubic is being manipulated. People are loosing sight of the real context of local elections and are thus becoming narrow minded and reactionary. Councillors who have worked hard to address the needs of their constituents are being ousted in the beleief that this will rattle the government. Well here's news - ever since the time of the meglomaniacal thatcher government, top politicians on all sides have become increasingly arrogant and self serving. They are not particularly phased by local ballot results. So carry on with your futile protest vote if you think it's the right thing to do - Gordon Won't be tossing and turning. And best of British to 21 year old James Keeley the politics student who has been elected in Liscard. After he's attended a few councill meetings he should have plenty of ideas for his final dissertation - I predict the title 'WIRRAL' THE POLITICAL SITUATION 1999-2009 PUBLIC SERVICE OR EXISTENTIONALISM?
Posted by: dave, heswall on 10:22am Fri 2 May 08
Excellent results for the Conservatives, bad night for Labour and a reasonably good night for the Lib-Dems.
National issues played a part, but Foulkes is kidding himself if he thinks that there was no local issues at play here. People have not been happy with this council's performance- the bins cockups, the mast cockups, the threatened clousre of birkenhead library, the attempt to waste money on the banana boat... all these have been in peoples' minds when voting.
Labour cannot now continue to govern the council with the liberals; hopefully when the Conservatives enter into coalition, then it will mean some of the incompetent council officers (they know who they are) are in for an uneasy few weeks!
For too long the Labour group has given free rein to certain council officers, and not subjected to any degree of scrutiny, which they would have been subject to anywhere else. That is now going to change. This council has underperformed for too long, and it is certain council officers who have been largely responsible for that, along with certain councillors. Change is coming.
Excellent results for the Conservatives, bad night for Labour and a reasonably good night for the Lib-Dems.
National issues played a part, but Foulkes is kidding himself if he thinks that there was no local issues at play here. People have not been happy with this council's performance- the bins cockups, the mast cockups, the threatened clousre of birkenhead library, the attempt to waste money on the banana boat... all these have been in peoples' minds when voting.
Labour cannot now continue to govern the council with the liberals; hopefully when the Conservatives enter into coalition, then it will mean some of the incompetent council officers (they know who they are) are in for an uneasy few weeks!
For too long the Labour group has given free rein to certain council officers, and not subjected to any degree of scrutiny, which they would have been subject to anywhere else. That is now going to change. This council has underperformed for too long, and it is certain council officers who have been largely responsible for that, along with certain councillors. Change is coming.
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 10:49am Fri 2 May 08
Dave.......keep the pressure up. We will get there in the end.
Dave.......keep the pressure up. We will get there in the end.
Posted by: dave, heswall on 10:56am Fri 2 May 08
Hopefully so Dave, at least a change in the political makeup will freshen things up when they allocate all the committees.
I see Foulkes is saying that we've all made a mistake, and that it's just national issues that have unseated them - he is burying his head in the sand as usual.
quote
“I have a sense of anger that good people who worked so hard in their communities have been swept aside by forces beyond their control.
“I think people will realise that they may have made a mistake by venting theiranger at central government at a local level.”
So the electorate according to Foulkes have made a huge mistake... I don't think so.
Hopefully so Dave, at least a change in the political makeup will freshen things up when they allocate all the committees.
I see Foulkes is saying that we've all made a mistake, and that it's just national issues that have unseated them - he is burying his head in the sand as usual.
quote
“I have a sense of anger that good people who worked so hard in their communities have been swept aside by forces beyond their control.
“I think people will realise that they may have made a mistake by venting theiranger at central government at a local level.”
So the electorate according to Foulkes have made a huge mistake... I don't think so.
Posted by: Steve Davies, Prenton on 11:23am Fri 2 May 08
I agree local politics need a kick up the Khyber and I'm not a member of any political party but I'll tell you this much. If you guys are looking forward to the day when Mr Geoffery Green, and his group take the reigns you really do need to ask yourself some fundamental questions such as: do I really want to pay more for refuse collection and other basic services, do I really want to see less spent on the poorer areas of Wirral. If the answer is YES then go right ahead. You may say can't get any worse - but we all know it could! Change YES but only for better, don't fall into the trap sacking the comedians and replacing them with a circus. Of course none of the things you mention above had anything to do with the conservative group did they - don't they partake in cabinet affairs?
I agree local politics need a kick up the Khyber and I'm not a member of any political party but I'll tell you this much. If you guys are looking forward to the day when Mr Geoffery Green, and his group take the reigns you really do need to ask yourself some fundamental questions such as: do I really want to pay more for refuse collection and other basic services, do I really want to see less spent on the poorer areas of Wirral. If the answer is YES then go right ahead. You may say can't get any worse - but we all know it could! Change YES but only for better, don't fall into the trap sacking the comedians and replacing them with a circus. Of course none of the things you mention above had anything to do with the conservative group did they - don't they partake in cabinet affairs?
Posted by: Ragnar, Berlin-Preussen. on 11:34am Fri 2 May 08
[quote]Steve the sniper, Noctorum on 10:17am Gordon Won't be tossing and turning.[/quote]
Sure about that?
Looks like a tosser to me, and he has made wenough U-Turns to put a thread on his ****.
Steve the sniper, Noctorum on 10:17am Gordon Won't be tossing and turning.
Sure about that?
Looks like a tosser to me, and he has made wenough U-Turns to put a thread on his ****.
Posted by: Ray Rowland, Noctorum on 11:39am Fri 2 May 08
Steve (Davies) the answer to your question is ...not to the same extent.
cabinet affairs are pretty well biased in favour of ..well guess who? but maybe one day ffoulkes and his cronies will lie on their death beds and sudenly realise they are not all powerful and at that point they MAY tell the truth for once.
Steve (Davies) the answer to your question is ...not to the same extent.
cabinet affairs are pretty well biased in favour of ..well guess who? but maybe one day ffoulkes and his cronies will lie on their death beds and sudenly realise they are not all powerful and at that point they MAY tell the truth for once.
Posted by: dave, heswall on 12:02pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]Steve Davies[/bold] wrote:
I agree local politics need a kick up the Khyber and I'm not a member of any political party but I'll tell you this much. If you guys are looking forward to the day when Mr Geoffery Green, and his group take the reigns you really do need to ask yourself some fundamental questions such as: do I really want to pay more for refuse collection and other basic services, do I really want to see less spent on the poorer areas of Wirral. If the answer is YES then go right ahead. You may say can't get any worse - but we all know it could! Change YES but only for better, don't fall into the trap sacking the comedians and replacing them with a circus. Of course none of the things you mention above had anything to do with the conservative group did they - don't they partake in cabinet affairs?[/quote] I agree with you about the political situation, and I have said before that the current problems at wirral council lie as much with certain council officials as they do with the ruling executive.
Yes, the Conservatives haven't covered themselves in glory in previous years, but I do think they would have held certain council officers to account for their mistakes, unlike the Labour group.
I'll say again, that party politics is not the main problem on the Wirral (although the Labour -Lib Dem executive have not done very well). The problem lies in its administration, particularly the with the CEO and associated council officers. The change in the ruling executive should now see some changes being made. Afterall, we the shareholders have had our say, and if they are not happy with the directors and management, then there needs to be change.
As for your suggestion that contributors here want less money spent on "poorer areas" (by that I take it you mean, Birkenhead or Seacombe) then I don't think anyone is suggesting that Birkenhead shouldn't receive money to help with regeneration, but not continually at the expense of other areas in the borough. Places like Heswall, Moreton, Liscard and Wallasey have been continually underfunded by the Labour council (because they get no electoral gain) and they instead have divided Wirral by focusing all the money on their own wards.
It's time for a fairer distribution in council funds.
Steve Davies wrote:
I agree local politics need a kick up the Khyber and I'm not a member of any political party but I'll tell you this much. If you guys are looking forward to the day when Mr Geoffery Green, and his group take the reigns you really do need to ask yourself some fundamental questions such as: do I really want to pay more for refuse collection and other basic services, do I really want to see less spent on the poorer areas of Wirral. If the answer is YES then go right ahead. You may say can't get any worse - but we all know it could! Change YES but only for better, don't fall into the trap sacking the comedians and replacing them with a circus. Of course none of the things you mention above had anything to do with the conservative group did they - don't they partake in cabinet affairs?
I agree with you about the political situation, and I have said before that the current problems at wirral council lie as much with certain council officials as they do with the ruling executive.
Yes, the Conservatives haven't covered themselves in glory in previous years, but I do think they would have held certain council officers to account for their mistakes, unlike the Labour group.
I'll say again, that party politics is not the main problem on the Wirral (although the Labour -Lib Dem executive have not done very well). The problem lies in its administration, particularly the with the CEO and associated council officers. The change in the ruling executive should now see some changes being made. Afterall, we the shareholders have had our say, and if they are not happy with the directors and management, then there needs to be change.
As for your suggestion that contributors here want less money spent on "poorer areas" (by that I take it you mean, Birkenhead or Seacombe) then I don't think anyone is suggesting that Birkenhead shouldn't receive money to help with regeneration, but not continually at the expense of other areas in the borough. Places like Heswall, Moreton, Liscard and Wallasey have been continually underfunded by the Labour council (because they get no electoral gain) and they instead have divided Wirral by focusing all the money on their own wards.
It's time for a fairer distribution in council funds.
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 1:03pm Fri 2 May 08
Some clarification for certain contributors on this site who seem to think I might be making a political point. I couldnt give a monkeys nuts who has the political power as long as that power is used for the BENEFIT of the citizens of Wirral. It is my belief, along with other contributors on this site including Dave of Heswall, that the existing authority, from elected councillors to unelected council officers, are at best incompetent or at worst wasting my and your council tax money. You have the right to disagree with my assertions as we are supposed to live in a democracy but Wirral Council is far from a democracy we all expect.
Some clarification for certain contributors on this site who seem to think I might be making a political point. I couldnt give a monkeys nuts who has the political power as long as that power is used for the BENEFIT of the citizens of Wirral. It is my belief, along with other contributors on this site including Dave of Heswall, that the existing authority, from elected councillors to unelected council officers, are at best incompetent or at worst wasting my and your council tax money. You have the right to disagree with my assertions as we are supposed to live in a democracy but Wirral Council is far from a democracy we all expect.
Posted by: Alan, Liscard on 2:56pm Fri 2 May 08
Hang on a minute, Liscard elected a twentyone year old student?
What the hell does a student know about anything apart from binge drinking? How can someone that young with no life or work experience represent those of us who have?
To add insult to injury this person pretends he actually went around canvasing. Did he hell, or if he did he never came my way. They are so arrogant they never even leafleted us. The only person that actually knocked on my door was the UKIP guy and I admired him for that even if I don't like his party.
Labour certainly need a kick in the backside because they have forgotten their core voters too many times but if anyone thinks the Conservatives are going to be a bundle of fun then you must not have been around in the eighties and a worker.
Twentyone year old student. The mind boggles!
Hang on a minute, Liscard elected a twentyone year old student?
What the hell does a student know about anything apart from binge drinking? How can someone that young with no life or work experience represent those of us who have?
To add insult to injury this person pretends he actually went around canvasing. Did he hell, or if he did he never came my way. They are so arrogant they never even leafleted us. The only person that actually knocked on my door was the UKIP guy and I admired him for that even if I don't like his party.
Labour certainly need a kick in the backside because they have forgotten their core voters too many times but if anyone thinks the Conservatives are going to be a bundle of fun then you must not have been around in the eighties and a worker.
Twentyone year old student. The mind boggles!
Posted by: Steve Davies, Prenton on 3:16pm Fri 2 May 08
well I'll make a political point then shall I?I'll wear the trousers! I don't know what happened to the spirit of thatcher?
Looks like the conservatives will take over the running of Wirral council. So can we expect lower council tax, fairer distribution of funding and resources greater transparency and a more efficient authority? Time will tell. Democracy as applied to the individual ends at the ballot box so you all must build a bridge and get over it. When the spending emphasis switches the landscape gardeners will be raking it in around West Wirral whilst the eastern side will struggle to get a bulb replaced in a street lamp.
well I'll make a political point then shall I?I'll wear the trousers! I don't know what happened to the spirit of thatcher?
Looks like the conservatives will take over the running of Wirral council. So can we expect lower council tax, fairer distribution of funding and resources greater transparency and a more efficient authority? Time will tell. Democracy as applied to the individual ends at the ballot box so you all must build a bridge and get over it. When the spending emphasis switches the landscape gardeners will be raking it in around West Wirral whilst the eastern side will struggle to get a bulb replaced in a street lamp.
Posted by: Ragnar, Berlin-Preussen. on 5:37pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]Alan[/bold] wrote:
Hang on a minute, Liscard elected a twentyone year old student?
What the hell does a student know about anything apart from binge drinking? How can someone that young with no life or work experience represent those of us who have?
To add insult to injury this person pretends he actually went around canvasing. Did he hell, or if he did he never came my way. They are so arrogant they never even leafleted us. The only person that actually knocked on my door was the UKIP guy and I admired him for that even if I don\'t like his party.
Labour certainly need a kick in the backside because they have forgotten their core voters too many times but if anyone thinks the Conservatives are going to be a bundle of fun then you must not have been around in the eighties and a worker.
Twentyone year old student. The mind boggles![/quote] Hold on. Were you not one of the ones a while back that tried to pull me to pieces because I told a teenager that she deserved no "respect" until she had earned it?
Changed your bloody tune a bit now, haven't you?
Alan wrote:
Hang on a minute, Liscard elected a twentyone year old student?
What the hell does a student know about anything apart from binge drinking? How can someone that young with no life or work experience represent those of us who have?
To add insult to injury this person pretends he actually went around canvasing. Did he hell, or if he did he never came my way. They are so arrogant they never even leafleted us. The only person that actually knocked on my door was the UKIP guy and I admired him for that even if I don\'t like his party.
Labour certainly need a kick in the backside because they have forgotten their core voters too many times but if anyone thinks the Conservatives are going to be a bundle of fun then you must not have been around in the eighties and a worker.
Twentyone year old student. The mind boggles!
Hold on. Were you not one of the ones a while back that tried to pull me to pieces because I told a teenager that she deserved no "respect" until she had earned it?
Changed your bloody tune a bit now, haven't you?
Posted by: Glenn, Greasby on 8:31pm Fri 2 May 08
Some good posts here guys!
It does appear that Cllr Foulkes is happy to blame national issues for the poor show by Labour!
Wrong again Steve!!!!!
Although I don’t believe Jock Brown is doing a very good job in charge, I voted last night for the first time in a local election.
And why?
Because I wanted to see the end of people like Cllr Gardiner who is part of that joke called the ‘Planning Committee’.
She just hung on (only 75 vote’s majority)!!!
As Dave & Dave have said previous we want strong councillors who will be able to run the council and not be scared to challenge those in our office and then, and only then, will we see the back of the likes of Maddox, Green, Anderson etc!!!
Some good posts here guys!
It does appear that Cllr Foulkes is happy to blame national issues for the poor show by Labour!
Wrong again Steve!!!!!
Although I don’t believe Jock Brown is doing a very good job in charge, I voted last night for the first time in a local election.
And why?
Because I wanted to see the end of people like Cllr Gardiner who is part of that joke called the ‘Planning Committee’.
She just hung on (only 75 vote’s majority)!!!
As Dave & Dave have said previous we want strong councillors who will be able to run the council and not be scared to challenge those in our office and then, and only then, will we see the back of the likes of Maddox, Green, Anderson etc!!!
Posted by: Alan, Liscard on 9:11pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]Ragnar[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Alan[/bold] wrote: Hang on a minute, Liscard elected a twentyone year old student? What the hell does a student know about anything apart from binge drinking? How can someone that young with no life or work experience represent those of us who have? To add insult to injury this person pretends he actually went around canvasing. Did he hell, or if he did he never came my way. They are so arrogant they never even leafleted us. The only person that actually knocked on my door was the UKIP guy and I admired him for that even if I don\'t like his party. Labour certainly need a kick in the backside because they have forgotten their core voters too many times but if anyone thinks the Conservatives are going to be a bundle of fun then you must not have been around in the eighties and a worker. Twentyone year old student. The mind boggles![/quote] Hold on. Were you not one of the ones a while back that tried to pull me to pieces because I told a teenager that she deserved no "respect" until she had earned it? Changed your bloody tune a bit now, haven't you?[/quote] No! Facts get right please. Haven't got a clue what you are referring to. No need to swear either.
Ragnar wrote:
Alan wrote: Hang on a minute, Liscard elected a twentyone year old student? What the hell does a student know about anything apart from binge drinking? How can someone that young with no life or work experience represent those of us who have? To add insult to injury this person pretends he actually went around canvasing. Did he hell, or if he did he never came my way. They are so arrogant they never even leafleted us. The only person that actually knocked on my door was the UKIP guy and I admired him for that even if I don\'t like his party. Labour certainly need a kick in the backside because they have forgotten their core voters too many times but if anyone thinks the Conservatives are going to be a bundle of fun then you must not have been around in the eighties and a worker. Twentyone year old student. The mind boggles!
Hold on. Were you not one of the ones a while back that tried to pull me to pieces because I told a teenager that she deserved no "respect" until she had earned it? Changed your bloody tune a bit now, haven't you?
No! Facts get right please. Haven't got a clue what you are referring to. No need to swear either.
Posted by: Victor D'Angelo, Wirral on 7:53am Sat 3 May 08
[quote][bold]Dave Rimmer[/bold] wrote:
Some clarification for certain contributors on this site who seem to think I might be making a political point. I couldnt give a monkeys nuts who has the political power as long as that power is used for the BENEFIT of the citizens of Wirral. It is my belief, along with other contributors on this site including Dave of Heswall, that the existing authority, from elected councillors to unelected council officers, are at best incompetent or at worst wasting my and your council tax money. You have the right to disagree with my assertions as we are supposed to live in a democracy but Wirral Council is far from a democracy we all expect.[/quote] I have read many of Mr Rimmer's previous postings. Rest easy Davey boy. No one thinks you're politically aligned. A moaner - maybe, reactionary - possibly but politically aligned no-way jos'e. If you and the other Dave have evidence of Town Hall wrong doings let's have it out in the open ombudsman etc. Or is it rumour and the mutterings of the bitter?
Dave Rimmer wrote:
Some clarification for certain contributors on this site who seem to think I might be making a political point. I couldnt give a monkeys nuts who has the political power as long as that power is used for the BENEFIT of the citizens of Wirral. It is my belief, along with other contributors on this site including Dave of Heswall, that the existing authority, from elected councillors to unelected council officers, are at best incompetent or at worst wasting my and your council tax money. You have the right to disagree with my assertions as we are supposed to live in a democracy but Wirral Council is far from a democracy we all expect.
I have read many of Mr Rimmer's previous postings. Rest easy Davey boy. No one thinks you're politically aligned. A moaner - maybe, reactionary - possibly but politically aligned no-way jos'e. If you and the other Dave have evidence of Town Hall wrong doings let's have it out in the open ombudsman etc. Or is it rumour and the mutterings of the bitter?
Posted by: King Tut, Wating around to see if any councillor will do some good this time around instead of looking after their own and party interests.. on 8:54am Sat 3 May 08
[quote][bold]Alan[/bold] wrote:
Hang on a minute, Liscard elected a twentyone year old student? What the hell does a student know about anything apart from binge drinking? How can someone that young with no life or work experience represent those of us who have? To add insult to injury this person pretends he actually went around canvasing. Did he hell, or if he did he never came my way. They are so arrogant they never even leafleted us. The only person that actually knocked on my door was the UKIP guy and I admired him for that even if I don't like his party. Labour certainly need a kick in the backside because they have forgotten their core voters too many times but if anyone thinks the Conservatives are going to be a bundle of fun then you must not have been around in the eighties and a worker. Twentyone year old student. The mind boggles![/quote] At 21 you can be a Policeman (a real one that is) and in some areas a magistrate. So why can't you be a councillor? I voted for him, as long as he does the job I will be happy. Alan you comment that James didn't knock on your door. Well he didn't knock on mine either, nor did ANY other candidate, not even the labour candidate... (by the way I have no links to any political party and I am lot older than 21)..
Alan wrote:
Hang on a minute, Liscard elected a twentyone year old student? What the hell does a student know about anything apart from binge drinking? How can someone that young with no life or work experience represent those of us who have? To add insult to injury this person pretends he actually went around canvasing. Did he hell, or if he did he never came my way. They are so arrogant they never even leafleted us. The only person that actually knocked on my door was the UKIP guy and I admired him for that even if I don't like his party. Labour certainly need a kick in the backside because they have forgotten their core voters too many times but if anyone thinks the Conservatives are going to be a bundle of fun then you must not have been around in the eighties and a worker. Twentyone year old student. The mind boggles!
At 21 you can be a Policeman (a real one that is) and in some areas a magistrate. So why can't you be a councillor? I voted for him, as long as he does the job I will be happy. Alan you comment that James didn't knock on your door. Well he didn't knock on mine either, nor did ANY other candidate, not even the labour candidate... (by the way I have no links to any political party and I am lot older than 21)..
Posted by: Cold Facts, Omnipresent on 2:19pm Sat 3 May 08
Let's not name names here, because we wouldn't want to embarrass anyone, not least because I tend to agree with the most of the criticisms of the council by one certain vociferous contributor to this site, but I feel I must raise one point:
In amongst his many, many words of council-induced angst, this contributor hasn't mentioned ANYWHERE the don't-have-to-pay-ba
ck £3,500 he just received from them in the form of a grant for that business he runs.
You know - just to be fair and above board, and all that.
;-)
Let's not name names here, because we wouldn't want to embarrass anyone, not least because I tend to agree with the most of the criticisms of the council by one certain vociferous contributor to this site, but I feel I must raise one point:
In amongst his many, many words of council-induced angst, this contributor hasn't mentioned ANYWHERE the don't-have-to-pay-ba
ck £3,500 he just received from them in the form of a grant for that business he runs.
You know - just to be fair and above board, and all that.
;-)
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 2:50pm Sat 3 May 08
I personally did not receive a £3600 grant so please be more accurate when you post.
Although I put the bid together for the grant, the company ( a charity)I worked for at the time received the money.
I am not quite sure what the point is you are making. I was a manager whitin the charity but I certainly did not "run" the company so again, I say, dont post misleading facts.
As far as the council themselves go, if you are happy with the service you get for your council tax payments, thats fine by me but as far as I am concerned incompetence is rife especially amongst some of the elected councillors and indeed some of the unelected officers and I am not prepared to sit back and let the ride rough shod over the residents of Wirral. We deserve better than being treated as a source of money for them to squander in any way they choose.
I personally did not receive a £3600 grant so please be more accurate when you post.
Although I put the bid together for the grant, the company ( a charity)I worked for at the time received the money.
I am not quite sure what the point is you are making. I was a manager whitin the charity but I certainly did not "run" the company so again, I say, dont post misleading facts.
As far as the council themselves go, if you are happy with the service you get for your council tax payments, thats fine by me but as far as I am concerned incompetence is rife especially amongst some of the elected councillors and indeed some of the unelected officers and I am not prepared to sit back and let the ride rough shod over the residents of Wirral. We deserve better than being treated as a source of money for them to squander in any way they choose.
Posted by: Glenn, Greasby on 4:38pm Sat 3 May 08
[quote][bold]Victor D'Angelo[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Dave Rimmer[/bold] wrote:
Some clarification for certain contributors on this site who seem to think I might be making a political point. I couldnt give a monkeys nuts who has the political power as long as that power is used for the BENEFIT of the citizens of Wirral. It is my belief, along with other contributors on this site including Dave of Heswall, that the existing authority, from elected councillors to unelected council officers, are at best incompetent or at worst wasting my and your council tax money. You have the right to disagree with my assertions as we are supposed to live in a democracy but Wirral Council is far from a democracy we all expect.[/quote] I have read many of Mr Rimmer's previous postings. Rest easy Davey boy. No one thinks you're politically aligned. A moaner - maybe, reactionary - possibly but politically aligned no-way jos'e. If you and the other Dave have evidence of Town Hall wrong doings let's have it out in the open ombudsman etc. Or is it rumour and the mutterings of the bitter? [/quote] Keep watching this space!
The birds will becoming home to roost in the not too distant future!!!
ps Dave you do not need to explain yourself to anybody!!!
Victor D'Angelo wrote:
Dave Rimmer wrote:
Some clarification for certain contributors on this site who seem to think I might be making a political point. I couldnt give a monkeys nuts who has the political power as long as that power is used for the BENEFIT of the citizens of Wirral. It is my belief, along with other contributors on this site including Dave of Heswall, that the existing authority, from elected councillors to unelected council officers, are at best incompetent or at worst wasting my and your council tax money. You have the right to disagree with my assertions as we are supposed to live in a democracy but Wirral Council is far from a democracy we all expect.
I have read many of Mr Rimmer's previous postings. Rest easy Davey boy. No one thinks you're politically aligned. A moaner - maybe, reactionary - possibly but politically aligned no-way jos'e. If you and the other Dave have evidence of Town Hall wrong doings let's have it out in the open ombudsman etc. Or is it rumour and the mutterings of the bitter?
Keep watching this space!
The birds will becoming home to roost in the not too distant future!!!
ps Dave you do not need to explain yourself to anybody!!!
Posted by: Alan, Liscard on 5:07pm Sat 3 May 08
King Tut. I know all that but at his age, I had worked for two different companies and was in the army. I went to a secondary modern school and was brought up relatively poor.
The whole point of my original post was that this person has not worked, not experienced life, daddy's money probably gave him the best education money can buy and yet he is going to make decisions that affect us all. I'm sorry but this is just not good enough.
Okay it's democracy and I accept the rule but I certainly don't have to like it.
I never said he knocked on doors and cavassed peoples opinions, he did. I was making the point that he never knocked on mine and obviously from your statement not on yours either, so where is consensus?
King Tut. I know all that but at his age, I had worked for two different companies and was in the army. I went to a secondary modern school and was brought up relatively poor.
The whole point of my original post was that this person has not worked, not experienced life, daddy's money probably gave him the best education money can buy and yet he is going to make decisions that affect us all. I'm sorry but this is just not good enough.
Okay it's democracy and I accept the rule but I certainly don't have to like it.
I never said he knocked on doors and cavassed peoples opinions, he did. I was making the point that he never knocked on mine and obviously from your statement not on yours either, so where is consensus?
Posted by: dave, heswall on 5:26pm Sat 3 May 08
[quote][bold]Alan[/bold] wrote:
King Tut. I know all that but at his age, I had worked for two different companies and was in the army. I went to a secondary modern school and was brought up relatively poor. The whole point of my original post was that this person has not worked, not experienced life, daddy's money probably gave him the best education money can buy and yet he is going to make decisions that affect us all. I'm sorry but this is just not good enough. Okay it's democracy and I accept the rule but I certainly don't have to like it. I never said he knocked on doors and cavassed peoples opinions, he did. I was making the point that he never knocked on mine and obviously from your statement not on yours either, so where is consensus?[/quote] Alan, is there a little bit of inverse snobbery in your post? Even if his parents are rich I don't see why that would affect Mr Keeley's position as a councillor. I don't like snobbery of any kind, and snobbery against someone just because they are young and middle class is a little tiresome. Would you be judging somebody because they were from a ethnic minority or were from a rough area in the same manner? Of course not; because it would not affect their ability to serve.
Shouldn't you be happy that he feels so strongly about things and is engaged with the political process that he has the inclination to stand for office? Afterall, all we hear these days is how "bad" young people are, so it should be refreshing to see how many young people want to do some good.
I mean, the "working class heroes" like Foulkes or Harry Smith, raised in Birkenhead, haven't exactly done much (in fact any) good for the Wirral. So why not give this guy a chance? I will not judge somebody by their background (whether they are working or middle class) I will judge them by what good (if any) they do for the area. Which is why I judge Foulkes to be a monumental disaster for the Wirral along ewith certain other councillors and certain officials.
It seems that things are starting to change, thank goodness. Hope springs eternal.
Alan wrote:
King Tut. I know all that but at his age, I had worked for two different companies and was in the army. I went to a secondary modern school and was brought up relatively poor. The whole point of my original post was that this person has not worked, not experienced life, daddy's money probably gave him the best education money can buy and yet he is going to make decisions that affect us all. I'm sorry but this is just not good enough. Okay it's democracy and I accept the rule but I certainly don't have to like it. I never said he knocked on doors and cavassed peoples opinions, he did. I was making the point that he never knocked on mine and obviously from your statement not on yours either, so where is consensus?
Alan, is there a little bit of inverse snobbery in your post? Even if his parents are rich I don't see why that would affect Mr Keeley's position as a councillor. I don't like snobbery of any kind, and snobbery against someone just because they are young and middle class is a little tiresome. Would you be judging somebody because they were from a ethnic minority or were from a rough area in the same manner? Of course not; because it would not affect their ability to serve.
Shouldn't you be happy that he feels so strongly about things and is engaged with the political process that he has the inclination to stand for office? Afterall, all we hear these days is how "bad" young people are, so it should be refreshing to see how many young people want to do some good.
I mean, the "working class heroes" like Foulkes or Harry Smith, raised in Birkenhead, haven't exactly done much (in fact any) good for the Wirral. So why not give this guy a chance? I will not judge somebody by their background (whether they are working or middle class) I will judge them by what good (if any) they do for the area. Which is why I judge Foulkes to be a monumental disaster for the Wirral along ewith certain other councillors and certain officials.
It seems that things are starting to change, thank goodness. Hope springs eternal.
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 7:16pm Sat 3 May 08
Glen, thanks for the support and I know I dont have to explain my personal life but it does annoy me when people get half a story and then relate that story with 25% accurace. I will certainly be looking forward to "watching this space" as I believe (presumably as you do) the tide is turning.
Glen, thanks for the support and I know I dont have to explain my personal life but it does annoy me when people get half a story and then relate that story with 25% accurace. I will certainly be looking forward to "watching this space" as I believe (presumably as you do) the tide is turning.
Posted by: dave, heswall on 8:07pm Sat 3 May 08
Glenn I second those comments, and Dave doesn't need to explain himself to anybody. It seems he has certain people in the council worried, which would explain why they are now resorting to posting insults on the website.
If I were them, I would be concentrating on trying to save their little "empires" over the next few weeks, because the new administration is not going to be as tolerant as the likes of Foulkes were.
Glenn I second those comments, and Dave doesn't need to explain himself to anybody. It seems he has certain people in the council worried, which would explain why they are now resorting to posting insults on the website.
If I were them, I would be concentrating on trying to save their little "empires" over the next few weeks, because the new administration is not going to be as tolerant as the likes of Foulkes were.
Posted by: Jason, Wallasey on 8:55pm Sat 3 May 08
So its just national issues that have caned the labour party in Wirral ? What tosh. Local council tax has doubled and is the service twice as good as it was ten years ago ? Petrol and diesel have almost doubled in six years. Food prices have shot up, you almost need a mortgage for a few pints and the T.V. licence is a pure scam, and don't forget energy costs and parking chrges all have sharply risen on Labours watch. And what do you get for working all week? The great party of the labour force (sarc.)take a day and a bit out of your wagers and tell how much worse life will be under the other lot. Well let me tell you its not been that great under you lot because all I can hear when you talk is TAX ! TAX ! TAX !
So its just national issues that have caned the labour party in Wirral ? What tosh. Local council tax has doubled and is the service twice as good as it was ten years ago ? Petrol and diesel have almost doubled in six years. Food prices have shot up, you almost need a mortgage for a few pints and the T.V. licence is a pure scam, and don't forget energy costs and parking chrges all have sharply risen on Labours watch. And what do you get for working all week? The great party of the labour force (sarc.)take a day and a bit out of your wagers and tell how much worse life will be under the other lot. Well let me tell you its not been that great under you lot because all I can hear when you talk is TAX ! TAX ! TAX !
Posted by: Victor D'Angelo, Wirral on 2:25pm Sun 4 May 08
[quote]Keep watching this space!
The birds will becoming home to roost in the not too distant future!!![/quote]
Sweet child o mine! Not another theorist. What birds would they be Glenn? The Fabled Hearsay Harrier ([italic]rumoursarus shitehawkus[/italic] . It's like a bus stop queue ''oh did you here what she did? (whisper) Well I never!'' ''It's true - bloke in the pub told me''. Throw out your crumbs then, let's if the birds come.
Keep watching this space!
The birds will becoming home to roost in the not too distant future!!!
Sweet child o mine! Not another theorist. What birds would they be Glenn? The Fabled Hearsay Harrier (
rumoursarus shitehawkus . It's like a bus stop queue ''oh did you here what she did? (whisper) Well I never!'' ''It's true - bloke in the pub told me''. Throw out your crumbs then, let's if the birds come.
Posted by: Dolphinbay, Southport on 4:01pm Sun 4 May 08
Sorry to hear about Pat Hackett losing. He has worked tirelessly for the good of New Brighton regeneration. Instead of getting a stupid clown on a roundabout and miles upon miles of railings surrounding an eyesore of an indoor fairground, money would have been well-spent on building a new pier, the ideal place for which would have been outside the main gates of Vale Park, bringing back the hoards of holiday makers that used to use New Brighton in it's heyday. Vale Park would then have been the new attraction with fun rides and hotdog/ice cream vendors and eventually bucket and spade shops croping up everywhere, not to mention the music emminating from the Vale Park Bandstand, maybe we could have had a new Briton's got talent/joytime show. Once again, unlucky Pat, we may see Peter Clee start to move house from Seacome to New Brighton, he's get a new pier built.
Sorry to hear about Pat Hackett losing. He has worked tirelessly for the good of New Brighton regeneration. Instead of getting a stupid clown on a roundabout and miles upon miles of railings surrounding an eyesore of an indoor fairground, money would have been well-spent on building a new pier, the ideal place for which would have been outside the main gates of Vale Park, bringing back the hoards of holiday makers that used to use New Brighton in it's heyday. Vale Park would then have been the new attraction with fun rides and hotdog/ice cream vendors and eventually bucket and spade shops croping up everywhere, not to mention the music emminating from the Vale Park Bandstand, maybe we could have had a new Briton's got talent/joytime show. Once again, unlucky Pat, we may see Peter Clee start to move house from Seacome to New Brighton, he's get a new pier built.
Posted by: Glenn, Greasby on 6:00pm Sun 4 May 08
Victor my friend, believe me this is no theory or fantasy story!
If you had been present in a meeting that I attended today with certain ‘high profile’ members of the Wirral political scene you would then know that the only thing being thrown out would be those in charge at the Town Hall!!!
There are those who are fed up with the incompetence of those in charge at WBC and prepared to do something about it!
Of course Victor by your tone I’m sorry to say it sounds like your loyalties are towards Maddox, Green etc!!
The clock is ticking!!
Victor my friend, believe me this is no theory or fantasy story!
If you had been present in a meeting that I attended today with certain ‘high profile’ members of the Wirral political scene you would then know that the only thing being thrown out would be those in charge at the Town Hall!!!
There are those who are fed up with the incompetence of those in charge at WBC and prepared to do something about it!
Of course Victor by your tone I’m sorry to say it sounds like your loyalties are towards Maddox, Green etc!!
The clock is ticking!!
Posted by: dave, heswall on 6:47pm Sun 4 May 08
[quote][bold]Victor D'Angelo[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Keep watching this space! The birds will becoming home to roost in the not too distant future!!![/quote] Sweet child o mine! Not another theorist. What birds would they be Glenn? The Fabled Hearsay Harrier ([italic]rumoursarus shitehawkus[/italic] . It's like a bus stop queue ''oh did you here what she did? (whisper) Well I never!'' ''It's true - bloke in the pub told me''. Throw out your crumbs then, let's if the birds come.[/quote] Believe me, this isn't hearsay or rumour, because change is a' comin, yee-haw ;)
Are you an employee of the council by any chance or just somebody else who pretneds not to know Mr Green or Mr Maddox, yet gets very upset when they are slated. Did you see Maddox on TV the other week? Came across quite badly you must agree - another council cockup that may have cost a man his life.
Victor D'Angelo wrote:
Keep watching this space! The birds will becoming home to roost in the not too distant future!!!
Sweet child o mine! Not another theorist. What birds would they be Glenn? The Fabled Hearsay Harrier (rumoursarus shitehawkus . It's like a bus stop queue ''oh did you here what she did? (whisper) Well I never!'' ''It's true - bloke in the pub told me''. Throw out your crumbs then, let's if the birds come.
Believe me, this isn't hearsay or rumour, because change is a' comin, yee-haw ;)
Are you an employee of the council by any chance or just somebody else who pretneds not to know Mr Green or Mr Maddox, yet gets very upset when they are slated. Did you see Maddox on TV the other week? Came across quite badly you must agree - another council cockup that may have cost a man his life.
Posted by: Dunc on 7:59pm Sun 4 May 08
I see Green has now decided to atually carry out some repair work on Brimstage Road, after weeks of near crashes and slowed traffic due to gaping holes in the road. Could this be anything to do with the election, or that people have had to write into local papers to get any action taken? Or could it be because he's not quite as comfortable in his office as he was when mr foulkes was there and so needs to start actually doing his job properly?
I see Green has now decided to atually carry out some repair work on Brimstage Road, after weeks of near crashes and slowed traffic due to gaping holes in the road. Could this be anything to do with the election, or that people have had to write into local papers to get any action taken? Or could it be because he's not quite as comfortable in his office as he was when mr foulkes was there and so needs to start actually doing his job properly?
Posted by: Rosa, Prenton on 10:23pm Sun 4 May 08
Whatever happened to another young Conservative fellow, (Paul somebody or other), who was elected last year, in this area. He looked very similar in build & age to Mr Keeley.
Whatever happened to another young Conservative fellow, (Paul somebody or other), who was elected last year, in this area. He looked very similar in build & age to Mr Keeley.
Posted by: Victor -y D'Angelo, Wirral on 12:15pm Mon 5 May 08
[quote]quote[/quote] Of course Victor by your tone I’m sorry to say it sounds like your loyalties are towards Maddox, Green etc!!
The clock is ticking!![quote]quote[/quote]
Glenn - please spare us the melodrama, there's a good lad. You're encroaching on the Heavily Brothers -one moans heavily, the other alludes heavily.
To answer your question; I have met the parties concerened and personally I found Steve Maddox (sadly like many solicitors)to be an arrogant, pompous git, probably from Heswall. Dave Green seems totally self possesed, with ambitions far above his personal capabilities. Councillor Foulkes - rabbit in headlights but does that make them crooks?
[quote]quote[/quote] Are you an employee of the council by any chance or just somebody else who pretneds not to know Mr Green or Mr Maddox, yet gets very upset when they are slated. [quote]quote[/quote] No again Dave! I'm in no way upset, I'm a writer, books to bog walls and I love asking questions. I partuicularly enjoy questioning myself - you should try it sometime. I'm not party to any WBC gravy train,I don't socialise with councillors - most I have met are either faux aggressive or boring. I'm just very curious to know what some of the wise guys who post innuendo on this site know or think they know about about the current administration. No one will venture to eloborate so I feel that may infact say it all! Oh! I almost forgot to mention that it also provides me with low-cost amusement and access to my favourite sport - know- all baiting!
quote
Of course Victor by your tone I’m sorry to say it sounds like your loyalties are towards Maddox, Green etc!!
The clock is ticking!!
quote
Glenn - please spare us the melodrama, there's a good lad. You're encroaching on the Heavily Brothers -one moans heavily, the other alludes heavily.
To answer your question; I have met the parties concerened and personally I found Steve Maddox (sadly like many solicitors)to be an arrogant, pompous git, probably from Heswall. Dave Green seems totally self possesed, with ambitions far above his personal capabilities. Councillor Foulkes - rabbit in headlights but does that make them crooks?
quote
Are you an employee of the council by any chance or just somebody else who pretneds not to know Mr Green or Mr Maddox, yet gets very upset when they are slated.
quote
No again Dave! I'm in no way upset, I'm a writer, books to bog walls and I love asking questions. I partuicularly enjoy questioning myself - you should try it sometime. I'm not party to any WBC gravy train,I don't socialise with councillors - most I have met are either faux aggressive or boring. I'm just very curious to know what some of the wise guys who post innuendo on this site know or think they know about about the current administration. No one will venture to eloborate so I feel that may infact say it all! Oh! I almost forgot to mention that it also provides me with low-cost amusement and access to my favourite sport - know- all baiting!
Posted by: dave, heswall on 1:59pm Mon 5 May 08
Surely as a writer or journalist then "Victor", you would know that you don't reveal your sources. Suffice to say that change is coming, and not before time. Having to put up with the likes of Foulkes et al has been punishment enough.
Surely as a writer or journalist then "Victor", you would know that you don't reveal your sources. Suffice to say that change is coming, and not before time. Having to put up with the likes of Foulkes et al has been punishment enough.
Posted by: Steve Davies, Prenton on 2:05pm Mon 5 May 08
I would like to pick up on a question by Dave of Heswall to Victor D'Angelo ''Are you an employee of the council?'' What the hell has that got to do anything posted here Dave?
Are you saying that the opinion of anyone who works for the local authority has no validity beacause that's what it sounds like. Are you saying that they're are somehow guilty by association. I've noticed you and your accolites have used this ploy a few times as a rebuttal to those who disagree with the postings of your mutual appreciation society. 'If you disagree with us, you must be one of e'm' is a cheap ploy by anyone's standards - and No! I don't work at the council either before you start.
I would like to pick up on a question by Dave of Heswall to Victor D'Angelo ''Are you an employee of the council?'' What the hell has that got to do anything posted here Dave?
Are you saying that the opinion of anyone who works for the local authority has no validity beacause that's what it sounds like. Are you saying that they're are somehow guilty by association. I've noticed you and your accolites have used this ploy a few times as a rebuttal to those who disagree with the postings of your mutual appreciation society. 'If you disagree with us, you must be one of e'm' is a cheap ploy by anyone's standards - and No! I don't work at the council either before you start.
Posted by: Glenn, Greasby on 3:11pm Mon 5 May 08
I think some people are missing the point!!
Fact – The Ombudsman is investigating more complaints about WBC since its inception. This is when most councils in the country have seen a decrease.
Fact – The Ombudsman has already found WBC guilty of maladministration in one case.
Fact – Wirral, for the third successive year, is in the bottom 20% performing councils in the country.
Let’s also not forget issues like refuge collection and phone masts.
Victor, this is not about popularity contests nor do I recall anybody accusing those said people of being crooks.
This is very simple!
Are the people in charge at the town hall competent at the position they have been appointed?
Based on the above the answer is no!!!
Victor do you honestly believe you are getting value for money from WBC for the council tax you pay??
Victor if you owned a business and your managers were shown up for being incompetent, if you valued your business, then you would get rid!
Well as council tax payers we own WBC therefore it is obvious that those who are in charge of our business are not capable and need to go!
The issue begins and ends at the top!
And just to pick up a point from Steve.
I don’t recall anybody having a go nor not valuing the opinions of those employed by WBC.
I think we all recognise that 99% of them do a good job.
In fact having spoken to various people in WBC they share the same frustrations as there appears a total lack of leadership with morale at an all time low!!
Again I repeat the buck stops at the top!
I think some people are missing the point!!
Fact – The Ombudsman is investigating more complaints about WBC since its inception. This is when most councils in the country have seen a decrease.
Fact – The Ombudsman has already found WBC guilty of maladministration in one case.
Fact – Wirral, for the third successive year, is in the bottom 20% performing councils in the country.
Let’s also not forget issues like refuge collection and phone masts.
Victor, this is not about popularity contests nor do I recall anybody accusing those said people of being crooks.
This is very simple!
Are the people in charge at the town hall competent at the position they have been appointed?
Based on the above the answer is no!!!
Victor do you honestly believe you are getting value for money from WBC for the council tax you pay??
Victor if you owned a business and your managers were shown up for being incompetent, if you valued your business, then you would get rid!
Well as council tax payers we own WBC therefore it is obvious that those who are in charge of our business are not capable and need to go!
The issue begins and ends at the top!
And just to pick up a point from Steve.
I don’t recall anybody having a go nor not valuing the opinions of those employed by WBC.
I think we all recognise that 99% of them do a good job.
In fact having spoken to various people in WBC they share the same frustrations as there appears a total lack of leadership with morale at an all time low!!
Again I repeat the buck stops at the top!
Posted by: Victor D'Angelo, Ma Maison - Wirral on 3:15pm Mon 5 May 08
OOOH! Dave you wound me 'd'assault vers Ma Coeur!'
Writer? Yes! Journalist? wash yer' mouth!
Bet you buy squid and tell the kids it's octopus.
Forgot to mention - just for balance, came across Cllr Green once about 3 years ago. A singularly charming, charismatic human being, whose un-biased views and generosity of spirit bring a breath of spring to local political life. (Now that's what I call journalism)
OOOH! Dave you wound me 'd'assault vers Ma Coeur!'
Writer? Yes! Journalist? wash yer' mouth!
Bet you buy squid and tell the kids it's octopus.
Forgot to mention - just for balance, came across Cllr Green once about 3 years ago. A singularly charming, charismatic human being, whose un-biased views and generosity of spirit bring a breath of spring to local political life. (Now that's what I call journalism)
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 3:16pm Mon 5 May 08
Mr Victor....you state that you love asking questions, particularly of yourself. Thats fine by me but I have not seen anywhere on this site that you have actually questioned anything that the council has done. That tells me that you are happy with the service provided by the local authority that your hard earned council tax is paid to. Once again thats fine by me if you choose not to question any incompetencies within Metropolitan Borough of Wirral. Presumably you believe that they are performing a satisfactory service as by your own words you would question them if you were not satisfied.
On the other hand, there are a number of contributors on this site that are not happy with the rife incompetence within the council and are prepared to express their displeasure. I fail to see exactly why you choose to criticise such people that wish to point the finger at the responsible incompetents
Mr Victor....you state that you love asking questions, particularly of yourself. Thats fine by me but I have not seen anywhere on this site that you have actually questioned anything that the council has done. That tells me that you are happy with the service provided by the local authority that your hard earned council tax is paid to. Once again thats fine by me if you choose not to question any incompetencies within Metropolitan Borough of Wirral. Presumably you believe that they are performing a satisfactory service as by your own words you would question them if you were not satisfied.
On the other hand, there are a number of contributors on this site that are not happy with the rife incompetence within the council and are prepared to express their displeasure. I fail to see exactly why you choose to criticise such people that wish to point the finger at the responsible incompetents
Posted by: bigfoot, Wirral on 7:03pm Mon 5 May 08
Not just incompetence, I would allege that their may be some corrupt practices occouring,which I am sure you would confirm,the problem is proving them conclusively. It is more than 'Whistle blowing' we need a bloody great big ships hooter!
Not just incompetence, I would allege that their may be some corrupt practices occouring,which I am sure you would confirm,the problem is proving them conclusively. It is more than 'Whistle blowing' we need a bloody great big ships hooter!
Posted by: Victor D'Angelo, Manchester Airport - en route to St Ettiene on 8:38pm Mon 5 May 08
You guys crack me up. Thanks for the banter, hope it works out for you when the incompetent and lazy are replaced by the greedy and the mean - sorry I meant Great and Magnanamous. Sorry to leave like this but work demands so I'm off to France for a few weeks. Hope to be able to keep in touch. One thought though just to leave you with - Dave, Dave & Glenn = DDG = Denounce David Green!
You guys crack me up. Thanks for the banter, hope it works out for you when the incompetent and lazy are replaced by the greedy and the mean - sorry I meant Great and Magnanamous. Sorry to leave like this but work demands so I'm off to France for a few weeks. Hope to be able to keep in touch. One thought though just to leave you with - Dave, Dave & Glenn = DDG = Denounce David Green!
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 8:56pm Mon 5 May 08
Victor, I do hope the cracks are not to painfull. Just to put you on the right track, yes we all mentioned incompetent but no one used the term lazy. Enjoy your stay in France.
Victor, I do hope the cracks are not to painfull. Just to put you on the right track, yes we all mentioned incompetent but no one used the term lazy. Enjoy your stay in France.
Posted by: Glenn, Greasby on 9:12pm Mon 5 May 08
Oh Victor you do make me laugh!
Of course the fact that you are out of the country for such long stretches explains why you do not get as frustrated with WBC as the majority on this forum!
Although myself, Dave & Dave have never met we do share the same beliefs!
Do you think we should stand at the next local elections as the DDG Party?
Victor would you vote for us?
I don’t think any of us would fall into the category of lazy, incompetent, mean, greedy category!
Victor please do keep in touch from foreign soils because I’m very disappointed that you have not replied to the questions I posed in my previous post!
Look out France!!!
Oh Victor you do make me laugh!
Of course the fact that you are out of the country for such long stretches explains why you do not get as frustrated with WBC as the majority on this forum!
Although myself, Dave & Dave have never met we do share the same beliefs!
Do you think we should stand at the next local elections as the DDG Party?
Victor would you vote for us?
I don’t think any of us would fall into the category of lazy, incompetent, mean, greedy category!
Victor please do keep in touch from foreign soils because I’m very disappointed that you have not replied to the questions I posed in my previous post!
Look out France!!!
Posted by: mike on 1:22am Tue 6 May 08
I've googled Victor D'Angelo and he seems to not be very well known. I'm sure he will have lovely time in France and by the time he comes back hopefully things may have changed at WBC.
I've googled Victor D'Angelo and he seems to not be very well known. I'm sure he will have lovely time in France and by the time he comes back hopefully things may have changed at WBC.
Posted by: Steve the sniper, Noctorum on 9:16am Tue 6 May 08
[quote] I've googled Victor D'Angelo and he seems to not be very well known.[/quote]
No s**t Sherlock - whish I'd thought of that! D'you work for MI5 or something?
Bon Chance Vic! I hope he/she returns - very funny, livened the debate and certainly ruffled a few egos. But fair play to you all responded with good grace.
Glenn I would vote for DDG party 'Drop Dead Gorgeous' or 'Dead Dull Grumpy' Whatever - your triumvirate has the answers. Excepting your reference to Wirral & the Ombudsman - I found this excerpt in the conclusion to the 07 report -[italic]italic[/italic] Complaints received
Volume & Character
It will seem, superficially, as if the number of complaints received against the Council by my office has fallen dramatically from the previous year – ie from 128 to 77. This is because last year’s figures were inflated by a major multiple complaint about housing benefit. The level of complaints is fairly static and has remained so over the last four years. The effect of the multiple complaint is by the fall this year incomplaints about housing benefit – from 53 to two. The level and distribution of complaints gives me
no particular cause for comment or concern.[italic]italic[/italic] Of course we've had the bins & phone mast since then. Wonder if that will have the ombudsman working o/t and employing more staff?
I've googled Victor D'Angelo and he seems to not be very well known.
No s**t Sherlock - whish I'd thought of that! D'you work for MI5 or something?
Bon Chance Vic! I hope he/she returns - very funny, livened the debate and certainly ruffled a few egos. But fair play to you all responded with good grace.
Glenn I would vote for DDG party 'Drop Dead Gorgeous' or 'Dead Dull Grumpy' Whatever - your triumvirate has the answers. Excepting your reference to Wirral & the Ombudsman - I found this excerpt in the conclusion to the 07 report - Complaints received
Volume & Character
It will seem, superficially, as if the number of complaints received against the Council by my office has fallen dramatically from the previous year – ie from 128 to 77. This is because last year’s figures were inflated by a major multiple complaint about housing benefit. The level of complaints is fairly static and has remained so over the last four years. The effect of the multiple complaint is by the fall this year incomplaints about housing benefit – from 53 to two. The level and distribution of complaints gives me
no particular cause for comment or concern. Of course we've had the bins & phone mast since then. Wonder if that will have the ombudsman working o/t and employing more staff?
Posted by: Glenn, Greasby on 1:05pm Tue 6 May 08
Steve, I very clearly stated ‘investigating complaints’!
You will not see these figures in the LGO’s annual report yet!!!
The LGO do appear to have issues with investigating complaints and I am aware of a number of cases which have taken up to 2 years before an investigating officer has been appointed.
I would also add its not only the LGO who are snowed under!
WBC legal department have never been so busy defending these cases against the council!
I’m not even 100% certain that the issues with the phone mast or refuge collection were reported to the LGO which probably proves that there are so many more issues that the residents of Wirral are unhappy with caused by WBC!!
ps Steve is it ok if I put you down for leaflet drops for our new DDG party??
Steve, I very clearly stated ‘investigating complaints’!
You will not see these figures in the LGO’s annual report yet!!!
The LGO do appear to have issues with investigating complaints and I am aware of a number of cases which have taken up to 2 years before an investigating officer has been appointed.
I would also add its not only the LGO who are snowed under!
WBC legal department have never been so busy defending these cases against the council!
I’m not even 100% certain that the issues with the phone mast or refuge collection were reported to the LGO which probably proves that there are so many more issues that the residents of Wirral are unhappy with caused by WBC!!
ps Steve is it ok if I put you down for leaflet drops for our new DDG party??
Posted by: Dave Rimmer, Wallasey on 1:27pm Tue 6 May 08
Maybe its not such a daft idea, a party of non politically aligned residents who would not bow and scrape to political masters
Maybe its not such a daft idea, a party of non politically aligned residents who would not bow and scrape to political masters
Posted by: Steve the sniper, Noctorum on 1:42pm Tue 6 May 08
Yes Investigating - you did say Glenn. Pardon me for trying to establish complaints upheld. So guilty until proven otherwise, that seems to be the way of it. But we live in an upfront democracy!! Who said that? Sgt Wilson, take that man's name.
Leaflet drop? I'm in! Maybe we could get an optician and a clairvoyant to sponsor.We could include a message from Mystic Meg on what the future has in store for WBC.
Yes Investigating - you did say Glenn. Pardon me for trying to establish complaints upheld. So guilty until proven otherwise, that seems to be the way of it. But we live in an upfront democracy!! Who said that? Sgt Wilson, take that man's name.
Leaflet drop? I'm in! Maybe we could get an optician and a clairvoyant to sponsor.We could include a message from Mystic Meg on what the future has in store for WBC.
Posted by: dave, heswall on 1:43pm Tue 6 May 08
[quote][bold]Glenn[/bold] wrote:
Steve, I very clearly stated ‘investigating complaints’! You will not see these figures in the LGO’s annual report yet!!! The LGO do appear to have issues with investigating complaints and I am aware of a number of cases which have taken up to 2 years before an investigating officer has been appointed. I would also add its not only the LGO who are snowed under! WBC legal department have never been so busy defending these cases against the council! I’m not even 100% certain that the issues with the phone mast or refuge collection were reported to the LGO which probably proves that there are so many more issues that the residents of Wirral are unhappy with caused by WBC!! ps Steve is it ok if I put you down for leaflet drops for our new DDG party?? [/quote] I don't think they were Glenn, although there may be action in the pipeline so to speak.
Glenn wrote:
Steve, I very clearly stated ‘investigating complaints’! You will not see these figures in the LGO’s annual report yet!!! The LGO do appear to have issues with investigating complaints and I am aware of a number of cases which have taken up to 2 years before an investigating officer has been appointed. I would also add its not only the LGO who are snowed under! WBC legal department have never been so busy defending these cases against the council! I’m not even 100% certain that the issues with the phone mast or refuge collection were reported to the LGO which probably proves that there are so many more issues that the residents of Wirral are unhappy with caused by WBC!! ps Steve is it ok if I put you down for leaflet drops for our new DDG party??
I don't think they were Glenn, although there may be action in the pipeline so to speak.
Posted by: dave, heswall on 1:47pm Tue 6 May 08
[quote][bold]Steve the sniper[/bold] wrote:
Yes Investigating - you did say Glenn. Pardon me for trying to establish complaints upheld. So guilty until proven otherwise, that seems to be the way of it. But we live in an upfront democracy!! Who said that? Sgt Wilson, take that man's name. Leaflet drop? I'm in! Maybe we could get an optician and a clairvoyant to sponsor.We could include a message from Mystic Meg on what the future has in store for WBC.[/quote] I don't think you need mystic meg to predict the future of certain people currently residing in WBC administration! How long has Maddox beeen there for- 10 years? Time for change. Green, I don't know, but giving him the remit of technical services was a big mistake.
Steve the sniper wrote:
Yes Investigating - you did say Glenn. Pardon me for trying to establish complaints upheld. So guilty until proven otherwise, that seems to be the way of it. But we live in an upfront democracy!! Who said that? Sgt Wilson, take that man's name. Leaflet drop? I'm in! Maybe we could get an optician and a clairvoyant to sponsor.We could include a message from Mystic Meg on what the future has in store for WBC.
I don't think you need mystic meg to predict the future of certain people currently residing in WBC administration! How long has Maddox beeen there for- 10 years? Time for change. Green, I don't know, but giving him the remit of technical services was a big mistake.
Posted by: Steve (formerly the sniper), Noctorum on 5:28pm Tue 6 May 08
Barrister wig on now and the curlers are out!
So Your Honour, ladies & gentlemen of the jury, may I respectfully request that the assertions of my learned friend Glenn be discounted on this occassion. Need I point out without unecessary emphasis that in his haste to instill a wretched situation as a scene akin to a depiction of 'Hogarthian Grotesques' a little 'wishfull thinking ' has been allowed to enter his train of thought. I would trust that as a gentleman these assertions would not have been borne by malice of forethought.
Consider, if you will, any large organisation, charged with delivering a range of diverse service to hundreds of thousands of individuals. Someone, somewhere is bound to harbour a degree of dissatisfaction be it some trifling irritation or a serious hazard be it real, imagined, tangible or exagerrated if we are to condemn that organisation we must be in a position to present any shortcomings in a factual context.
My other learned friend talks of pipelines - may I suggest pipe dreams as a more appropriate euphemism.
(God this is easy - I think I'll apply for bar school)
Dave Heswall, I would have thought Green David would have been the obvious choice for the chop. Technical services, I'm told,is Mr Green's baby from conception to problem childhood. It's far too big. A super department is great if you have the superstars to make it work, but it's sadly evident Wirral haven't. The Mad Ox he be a slippery bovoid. Be interesting to see how they're going to award him another Honour - The DCM (don't come Monday) Maybe with an OBE (old Brown Envelope)
I really do like Dave Rimmer's suggestion - apolitical communty representitives. Get things done, take failing councils to task and answer only to the electorate.
Barrister wig on now and the curlers are out!
So Your Honour, ladies & gentlemen of the jury, may I respectfully request that the assertions of my learned friend Glenn be discounted on this occassion. Need I point out without unecessary emphasis that in his haste to instill a wretched situation as a scene akin to a depiction of 'Hogarthian Grotesques' a little 'wishfull thinking ' has been allowed to enter his train of thought. I would trust that as a gentleman these assertions would not have been borne by malice of forethought.
Consider, if you will, any large organisation, charged with delivering a range of diverse service to hundreds of thousands of individuals. Someone, somewhere is bound to harbour a degree of dissatisfaction be it some trifling irritation or a serious hazard be it real, imagined, tangible or exagerrated if we are to condemn that organisation we must be in a position to present any shortcomings in a factual context.
My other learned friend talks of pipelines - may I suggest pipe dreams as a more appropriate euphemism.
(God this is easy - I think I'll apply for bar school)
Dave Heswall, I would have thought Green David would have been the obvious choice for the chop. Technical services, I'm told,is Mr Green's baby from conception to problem childhood. It's far too big. A super department is great if you have the superstars to make it work, but it's sadly evident Wirral haven't. The Mad Ox he be a slippery bovoid. Be interesting to see how they're going to award him another Honour - The DCM (don't come Monday) Maybe with an OBE (old Brown Envelope)
I really do like Dave Rimmer's suggestion - apolitical communty representitives. Get things done, take failing councils to task and answer only to the electorate.
Posted by: Glenn, Greasby on 7:43pm Tue 6 May 08
Steve you have created an excellent defence for the defendant that I think you need to get down to the Town Hall as I know there legal department are stretched!!
Seriously you are correct and it is ill judged of me to establish guilt without the investigations having been completed.
Although I would add 1 case of maladministration is 1 case too many!!!
I spoke to a leading political member of Wirral who said that basically the people of the Wirral are too nice and that is why that so many issues caused by WBC that have been ignored previously.
That is way they are so surprised at the volume of complaints that are now coming through about WBC.
Do you think the people of Wirral have simply had enough??
Dave, I really hope that somebody is bought to task about the masts and not just a gentle wrap across the knuckles.
It is no surprise that some people are calling for a police investigation when all the approvals/rejections for other planning proposals went out on that same day with the exception of, yes you have guessed it, the rejections for the masts!!
Steve you have created an excellent defence for the defendant that I think you need to get down to the Town Hall as I know there legal department are stretched!!
Seriously you are correct and it is ill judged of me to establish guilt without the investigations having been completed.
Although I would add 1 case of maladministration is 1 case too many!!!
I spoke to a leading political member of Wirral who said that basically the people of the Wirral are too nice and that is why that so many issues caused by WBC that have been ignored previously.
That is way they are so surprised at the volume of complaints that are now coming through about WBC.
Do you think the people of Wirral have simply had enough??
Dave, I really hope that somebody is bought to task about the masts and not just a gentle wrap across the knuckles.
It is no surprise that some people are calling for a police investigation when all the approvals/rejections for other planning proposals went out on that same day with the exception of, yes you have guessed it, the rejections for the masts!!
